War resister Camilo Mejia and independent reporter Dahr Jamail give Dynamicthe facts, and explain why we have to bring the troops home NOW.
"NOBODY BUYS THIS WAR" An Interview with Camilo Mejia
Interview by Greg King
Dynamic: You were recently released from prison, where you served time for your courageous decision, after experiencing combat in Iraq, not to go back to fight in that unjust war. Can you begin by talking about how your family experiences inspired you to become a war resister?
CM: My mom worked for the Sandinistas. My dad was a famous musician during the Sandinista years in Nicaragua and other places. That must have played a role in my decision, coming from that very strong political background. But I think it is more of the personal experience living with my mother, who always taught me to question and who always lived her life questioning and following her conscience and doing what she thought to be the right thing.
I pretty much grew up in the heart of the Sandinista revolution. It was a very beautiful time in history. Growing up in Nicaragua, I went to a private Catholic school and there was private enterprise. There were open elections. So it was not really a communist government like most people think. But it was really communist-friendly. I remember learning Russian when I was a kid in school. A lot of the people that helped in the revolution— as far as doctors and teachers and other professionals—were from Cuba. We had very close relationships.
It was a social justice movement that believed everybody was entitled to a dignified life. And in that sense it was sort of socialist/communist. My parents were both very involved with the revolution. I grew up seeing that it is possible for a government or for people to rise up against the established power and fight for the right to food, the right to natural resources of their country and their land, for education. To fight for health benefits and for it all to actually bear fruit.
My parents were such prominent members of their community that I turned away from politics. I felt that I was expected to follow certain paths, but I just wanted to be independent and choose my own life. I wanted to do the opposite of what people wanted me to do. [However] in the end, I guess there was a revolutionary deep within me that was sleeping for a long time and the war in Iraq woke him up. It just hit me like a train. I realized that I had to embrace who I was and was meant to be my entire life. And then I just said “No.� I said, “I am not going to do this.� I did what I did. I didn’t go back to Iraq to the war.
Dynamic: I read an article yesterday that talked about how the Army is not meeting their recruitment goals and is starting to recruit high school dropouts. Could you talk about military recruitment, and how the antiwar movement should address the increasing militarization of young people’s lives?
CM: Certainly the Army is not reaching their desired numbers. There are different reasons for that, and a big one is that nobody really buys this war. I, particularly, no longer buy any war. War is by governments and there are always underlying economic reasons behind it. The corporations are really behind every modern war and people realize that. This war in Iraq is very discredited as far as the reasons that led to it, and people just don’t want to fight it. People want to have something to justify killing other people, being killed, or losing a leg. It has to be for a good reason and people don’t have that reason anymore. When you give people something to fight for, when people think they are defending their homeland, when people really think they are fighting for freedom, they volunteer. You don’t have to go out of your way and lie to kids in order for them to join.
The other thing is the misuse of the National Guard. The Pentagon has completely miscalculated what is going to happen in Iraq, and instead of using the National Guard the way they tell you, as a soldier going from active duty to National Guard, the National Guard is being used for extended deployment—not primarily for state emergencies, like it’s supposed to be. Now we are being sent to combat zones. National Guard families are not used to living a 100% military-style life. A lot of people are going to college, or just got married, or have their own businesses. The National Guard is pretty much messing up a whole lot of lives: breaking up marriages, getting people bankrupt; people are losing their mortgages and more.
So, it is no longer attractive. You are no longer fighting for home, you are not defending your state, you have been sent for periods of 12 to 18 months, coming back home for maybe 6 and then being redeployed. Of course the recruiters aren’t making their numbers! They’re screwing up the Guard and the Reserves. The war is a lie; nobody believes in it. That’s my two cents on why they’re missing their numbers.
As far as how to conduct counter-recruitment, what I find the best is not to tell kids what to do. What’s going on in schools right now is that these recruiters are showing up in really poor neighborhoods at the schools with pizza. They’re throwing barbeque parties. They have this video game called “America’s Army� where kids play for free. They download the game on the internet and then when they win it takes them to a recruiting station website. There, they advertise these parties. They say: “Come. Free entry. Free drinks. Free food. Come play with real soldiers�. That’s how they sign them up. They tell kids who don’t hear anything else and feel like they have no options. Of course it’s a big lack of options for these kids compared to the more upper class ones.
But the main thing, in my opinion, is that they’re not hearing the other side of the story. So, as a combat vet, all I tell them is my experience. All I tell them is what the recruiters told me. The recruiters told me “you are going to be the cream of the military because you’re an infantryman. You are going to get the best training. You are going to get promoted quicker. Everybody is going to envy you. You’re probably not going to do much. You’re going to sleep in the back of a truck.� And then I tell them what really happened: I applied to get out. I was extended to the year 2031. The small print on the contract says that they can change the terms without informing you or without obtaining your consent. I tell them all the harsh facts about military life and the possibility of ending up in war. I tell them what is like to be in war and what you think about the occupation. I tell them how the people in an occupied country feel about you, the occupier. I tell them about the people who get wounded and killed. That gives them an alternative view. That gives them the tools to build their own decision, because they’re informed. Now they know the other side.
The peace and justice movement should concentrate on putting out that information. The people who don’t oppose the war don’t particularly support it. They just don’t know enough about it. And this includes the kids who are being recruited. Show what happens once they sign above that dotted line. That’s my approach to counter-recruitment.
Dynamic: Can you describe your experience of telling your story and speaking out against the war to audiences around the country? What have you seen and learned?
CM: I hate to say it, but I have mostly spoken to really friendly crowds by invitation. I go to churches in different communities. I go to schools. I go to anti-war rallies and anti-war marches and everybody pretty much agrees with you. These are the type of people that I am talking to. When you go to a church that is known for its political activism for social justice and peace, it’s important to go there, but it’s almost like you’re preaching to the choir. It’s necessary to go to the more hostile areas and to the places where people have not been exposed to the debate. It’s really important to go to places where people disagree with you and to not push them away.
You asked me about what I have learned. I learned that there is a lot of division in America. The people on the left are actually creating a lot of that, through language, for instance. By seeing things as either black or white, left or right, Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, pro-war, against war, pro-Bush, against Bush.
I think that the mentality should change. I think the mentality should be that we’re all the same, and that there are those who know enough about the war and those who don’t know enough about it. Let’s bring the war to those who don’t know enough about it. Let’s not alienate people.
You see a lot on bumper stickers: “Bush Lied� or whatever. Of course he lied. But when you have a Bush supporter and then you have someone walking around with a t-shirt that says “Bush: International Terrorist,� I agree with that. I agree that he’s a criminal. I agree that he should be tried. But what happens when you walk around with a T-shirt that says that? You are pushing people away. You’re making people close their minds to what you have to say. So, I think that people really need to learn to be more inclusive, to be more open to hearing other people, and not be so polarizing in their arguments.
Let’s try to find common ground in what this war means. The cost of lives in Iraq affects all of us. Instead of saying, “These freaking warmongers, they’re liars. They’re criminals,� peace activists can just put the facts out. For example, how are big companies profiting from the war? It’s important to remember that Saddam Hussein was not really attacked because he was a dictator—the US government helped him while he was a dictator! They brokered the deal for him to get all the chemical materials to make his weapons from American companies. Put the truth out there and people will come around. Everyone would love peace if they just know peace, and everybody would hate war if they just know war. This is not the time to be fighting each other. This is the time to be finding common ground.
Life in a War Zone An interview with Dahr Jamail
Interview by Keren Wheeler
Weary of the overall failure of the US media to accurately report on the realities of the war in Iraq for the Iraqi people and US soldiers, Dahr Jamail went to Iraq to report on the war himself. Dahr has spent a total of 8 months in occupied Iraq as one of only a few independent US journalists in the country. Dahr is currently reporting from Amman, Jordan, where Dynamic recently reached him on his cell phone.
Dynamic: What’s life like for youth and students under the occupation?
DJ: I have a 20-year old friend who is in college. She said that sitting in a classroom on some days is like being in a war zone. They can hear the rockets and mortars flying over their school and exploding. Going to school, primary, secondary or college, is very hazardous now. Many people aren’t able to attend any more. For those that do, there’s a shortage of teachers, books, materials, and no rebuilding going on with the schools.
Also, teachers are leaving the country often because even students, to give you an idea of the extent of lawlessness, are threatening them. They’re being assaulted by students or sometimes even killed if they give out a grade that the student is not happy with. So many teachers are not going to work and as a result many students aren’t either.
Dynamic: U.S. corporations are getting billions of dollars, supposedly to rebuild Iraq’s devastated infrastructure and public works. What’s the deal with the reconstruction of Iraq?
DJ: Regarding schools, most reconstruction is very superficial, especially any work done by the bigger corporations like Bechtel, where it falls under their contract to rebuild schools. I’ve visited those schools and I can describe the conditions: Electrical sockets are hanging free, fans aren’t working, there are no desks; sometimes there’s not even a chalkboard for the teacher to write on. Schools are really in abysmal shape. I should add that they weren’t in good shape to begin with. They definitely needed attention under Saddam. The problem is that the US made promises of reconstruction which many Iraqis believed and hoped for, and it just has not happened in nine cases out of ten.
Dynamic: But Bechtel has received the money for this work anyway?
DJ: They have been awarded several contracts and paid in full for their initial contract, which was 680 million dollars, and included schools, hospitals, and water treatment work. But it’s a “cost plus� contract – that means that even though they have not done the work, if they have someone there saying that they still intend to do it, they are not technically in violation. The bottom line is that they have been paid and have not done the work.
Dynamic: You cover the continuing violence in Iraq and speculate that the US is stoking the violence through the use of so-called security forces. What would you say to people who make the argument that US troops have to stay or there will be a civil war?
DJ: Really a civil war has been going on for quite a while now. To prevent one is already moot because of that. In fact, the US presence makes it worse. The US essentially creates sectarian violence by pitting Shi’a against the Sunni resistance or the Pesh Merga against the Iraqi resistance. Shi’a death squads from the Badr Militia have been set up, as even Rumsfeld admitted and the mainstream media reported. Essentially the US occupation forces have been stoking the fires.
The US also insisted on going ahead with the January elections without meeting Sunni demands. This caused a Sunni boycott of the elections, again deepening the sectarian rifts. Before the elections, Sunni political parties didn’t ask even for a complete withdrawal of US forces. Their main demand was that during the elections the US military should stay on their own bases. Of course, that demand wasn’t met. There were many other factors involved, but that was one of the major ones. If the US military had met even some of the Sunni demands, then the Sunnis would have been involved in the elections and would today be much more involved in the political process. Since they’re not, this is one of the leading causes of the civil war going on right now.
So not only can I attest that the US staying there has not prevented a civil war, it could be argued that they have, intentionally or not, really created it and perpetuated it to this day.
Dynamic: Here in the US we don’t get a clear picture of the different political forces operating in Iraq. There are many different perspectives and sides vying for a piece of the pie, yet often we get an undifferentiated picture: for instance, all violence is the US fighting terrorists, or all violence is the resistance fighting the US occupation. Maybe you can help clear that up?
DJ: It is a challenging picture because it is so complex. It’s really more of an American perspective, one I’ve been guilty of too, of trying to make it one group versus another.
The reality is that referring to the Iraqi resistance as one entity is really a misnomer. The resistance is many different groups with many different agendas, and they sometimes coordinate with each other, but oftentimes they are acting completely on their own volition. Some of them are essentially nationalists, fighting to get the occupation out of their country, others are jihadists, And there are definitely terrorist groups operating inside Iraq, which really are not affiliated with the Iraqi resistance. Then the Badr militia is essentially the strong-arm of the majority Shi’a now inside the government.
And of course we have the private contractors, i.e. the mercenaries, which are actually the second largest group in Iraq besides the US military, as far as people affiliated to the ‘coalition.’ These hired guns from all over the world are coming in, and they’re operating outside the rules of military engagement. Often they are used by the military to do their dirty work, like carry out assassinations.
There are so many different groups operating. One analogy I’ve made is that in that sense Iraq closely resembles Lebanon during the Lebanese war, with many factions fighting over different agendas.
Dynamic: How does the US military conduct itself during home raids, in its presence on the streets? Are young men are a particular target, like in Palestine and other places? What direct experience does an Iraqi person have with the occupying forces?
DJ: People are very afraid of the US military because they are essentially operating on a shoot first and ask questions later standard procedure. This goes whether they’re in the streets or during home raids. The soldiers are very scared, and rightly so, because it’s a really horrible guerrilla war. They could be car bombed or suicide bombed or attacked at any time by anyone.
So they are shooting first and asking questions later. For instance at checkpoints, if a car doesn’t stop when they want it to, often the soldiers just shoot! Even if the person didn’t see or understand their hand signals, and even if the [military] didn’t have signs out asking people to stop. There is so much random violence daily caused by the US military.
This goes into the home raid situation, especially right now with this huge operation in Baghdad. For example, one house was entered and the military found some literature for an upcoming demonstration, so they immediately detained all the men, no questions asked.
It’s a really precarious position especially for young men. Simply because you’re young the military sees you as more of a target than anyone else.
Dynamic: Is it dangerous for people to participate in demonstrations and expressions of opposition to the occupation?
DJ: It is a very dangerous thing. One of the first things the government did last summer after the so-called transfer of sovereignty is make demonstrations illegal. So the only way to demonstrate is if it’s a pro-occupation, pro-Iraqi government demonstration. Anything falling outside those lines basically you will be taking your life in your hands. They ask people to disperse and if they don’t, they’re either shot, detained, or rolled over by tanks. Demonstrations with thousands of people are most likely going to end very badly.
Dynamic: How do you respond to White House claims such as “We’ve liberated 20 million people in Iraq and given women the opportunity to study� ? What is your assessment of opportunities for young women, especially given the fifty percent unemployment, and increasing fundamentalist control in some areas?
DJ: I would start by saying that Iraq prior to the invasion, not that it was a bastion of women’s rights, but comparatively throughout the Middle East it was the best place for a woman to be. But now, as you pointed out, because of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, we have Shi’a dominance in the government and they want Sharia law. They basically want women to stay at home, to stay covered up, to not work, and not go to college.
And we already see that being played out in the South, especially in Basra, a city of about 1.5 million people controlled by Shi’a militias. Women who try to go to college, or even women who walk outside not fully covered up, are getting beaten or raped. In some small villages around Southern Iraq, women are now being forced to wear burkas.
Since the US occupation, most women I’ve spoken with are either leaving Iraq or staying at their homes most of the time. If they’re lucky enough to have a job, they’ll literally just go to the job and come back home right away. It’s extremely dangerous for women; the incidence of rape has gone through the roof, which is something women never really had to worry about at all prior to the invasion, because one thing with a dictator is law enforcement is quite good, and right now it’s abysmal. Women are paying a higher price. Most of them are afraid to even leave their homes now.
So the pro-war argument that, even though there are no weapons of mass destruction or links to Al Qaeda, we’re gonna liberate Iraqi people and Iraqi women, is quite bogus.
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